Island Locks - Locksmith Courses - Lock Picking - Lock Opening - Locksmith Tools

Hi gang - New but old apprentice here. My works has loads of these locks fitted to the offices - any clues as to its ID and best method to pick? The nearest I have got is using an overlifter but it won't turn.

 any clues please?

without looking at my book it looks like either an old chubb or a merchant lock. it will pick with a modified pick wire as the warding will prevent the first lever being picked

the nearest i can find is an old legge with the slider levers

Are those 'spacers' between the levers, shown in your photo Jerry? If so, it looks like the old Gold Union 4 Lever to me, which uses the 'Butters System'. It has that warding too.

Go with you OAH's on the lock, and like Stu says, the internal warding around the keyway will require slightly modified pick wires.

The lock may be branded though under the name of 'Willenhall' or 'Imperial'?

Cheers for the response so far - yes they are spacers, at first I thought they were some kind of anti pick but they don't interfere with the raising of the levers. My problem is getting the levers to the correct height and staying there while they all line up - and that's with visual!

I have modified an overlifter so it catches the first lever and I can raise the whole pack - hoping that the tension will allow each lever to slot in as I slacken off. No - is the firm reply - but I will persevere.

if you make a curtain pick with a key leave the end of the key long other end from bow and make it into a soldier or upstand so it looks like a 2 in 1 pick end which can pick up the talon then grind the rest of the flag and the stem of the key so it is ground down to a semi circle. this will give you a ledge then a pick wire and pick like a curtain pick with out the curtain and putting tention on the bolt via the talon instead..

union 2197 4 lever butter system. if you need the drill point pm me. if you drill a 8/10mm hole then you can look through it while picking to get a feel for it. the keyway and the levers are brass.

funny all the locks on here lately like the 3r 60 chubb and the one in question are all in a book i brought from lulu.com. best £25 i spent for a while..

Stu, if the book is the one I'm thinking of, it IS the very best out there. I got the DVD of the book on eBay, direct from the Author , and it covers so much more than the 'other book', and in much greater detail, with more photos too.

These will open with Pick Wires without a problem. The tension tools, left & right, will just have to be slightly off-set to get around the internal warding and contact the bolt tail, and when you pick just remember to account for the warding to catch the 1st lever in the lock.

Many thanks for the above advice - I shall do some creative picks tonight and let you know how I get on. I'm glad I have the benefit of a lock stripped down + this forum. I don't think I'd be cut out to approach an unknown lock and decide what it is through a keyhole. Hats off to you gents.

stu windsor locks at May 25, 2010 at 5:25 PM

funny all the locks on here lately like the 3r 60 chubb and the one in question are all in a book i brought from lulu.com. best £25 i spent for a while..

Hi Stu whats the name of the book??thanks Phil.

This is currently the best in my opinion:

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/mortice-lock-identification-manual-the-definitive-guide/6543248

if you pm me your email address Phil, I havea pdf I can send you of something similar but a bit older as a starter for you.

http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/the-field-guide-to-mortice-locks/3979903?productTrackingContext=search_results/search_shelf/center/1

this is the book i was talking about however deans one is good and i also use it

Cheers Stu I will take a look at that.

Dean at May 28, 2010 at 1:26 AM

This is currently the best in my opinion:

 

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/mortice-lock-identification-manual-the-definitive-guide/6543248

 

if you pm me your email address Phil, I havea pdf I can send you of something similar but a bit older as a starter for you.

Hi Dean sorry missed your post the other day,I have the Gary Ingliss book but anything similar is greatly appreciated Thanks Phil.

Still trying